Monica A.Coleman 00:00
The shorter term like if you don't know what to say, I think it's fine to say I don't know what to say, this is really tough. I can see that this is difficult for you or that you're hurting. And then it's a great time to kick in that ministry of presence like that does not get old, like don't say anything. If you don't know what to say, it's fine to say, I don't know what to say, you know, do you want to get something to eat? Do you want to watch TV together? Can I send some GrubHub to your house? Write it, you know, to make sure people just don't feel alone.
Laura Howe 00:37
From Hope Made Strong, this is The Care Ministry Podcast, a show about equipping ministry leaders and transforming communities through care. supporting those in your church and community not only changes individuals' lives, but it grows and strengthens the church. But we want to do that without burning out. So listen in as we learn about tools, strategies and resources that will equip your team and strengthen hope.
I'm Laura Howe, and we are continuing the series during Mental Health Awareness Month and today we're going to be talking about depression. I'm curious, have you ever felt depressed, it is an awful feeling. And I can remember standing in my bedroom, feeling numb, not being able to remember the last time I laughed or had fun, or maybe even smiled. I felt apathetic, physically exhausted and numb. This was my experience when I felt burnt out and I was having symptoms of compassion fatigue, my experience ended up being situational and with some counseling and support I was able to recover. But during that time, I felt awful. It was so heavy like almost felt like a physical weight. And so I have a very deep respect for the courage and strength of those who suffer from chronic depression. If that is you, you are incredible. You are strong and to be admired. Don't let anyone tell you that you're lazy or that you're not doing enough because you're surviving. You're pushing through and you're showing up as a parent as a leader, friend, employee as a leader, despite the crushing weight of depression, and I applaud you. The weight of depression is also familiar to Monica Coleman. Now Monica is a professor she's a clergy a minister, and she is an author. One of her six books is titled Not Alone. And it's in this book that Monica shares her lifelong journey with trauma and depression, as well as the challenges she has faced as a woman of faith. Monica grew up as an only child in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and she was a quiet kid who loved to read, but spent her days exploring the neighborhood and local forest with friends who actually felt more like family. Her years as teen were almost idealic they included Girl Guides and attending church programs with kids that she is in still in touch with today. Monica is a natural academic. As a middle schooler, she was interested in black authors and thought leaders and as a young teenager would ask for literary criticism books for her birthday much different than myself. In college, she started out studying math and economics but switched her major to African American studies after discovering that she could major in what was already her beloved hobby. After having such positive and fun experiences as a teen at church while away at college, she wanted to make sure that she continued in her faith journey.
Monica A.Coleman 03:57
When I went to college, I wanted to join the local black church and I grew up Baptists and AME. So but my grandparents were Baptist, my parents and I actually my parents grew up in church together, so they grew up together. And so I looked for Baptist Church, and but you know, there's always kind of a cool college kid church. So the cool college kid church was an AME Church. So that's where I ended up where a bunch of other college kids from the area ended up because they had a college ministry. But I was also involved in what was now crew but within Campus Crusade for Christ. And you know, that first week you go to college and you see all the different activities there are to do and you're in that little tent like join Glee Club join this doing that. And there was some like you want to go to Bible study, I was like, Sure. And my roommate was also in my Bible study, and it was kind of based on where you lived. But we held it in our room because both of us were in the same Bible study. And I became very I had never heard of Campus Crusade before. I had never heard of bill. It was a whole new world like kind of this white Campus evangelical world was very different from black church. And I liked it, I was like, oh, we should talk to each other because like, we got good music and you got these other things you do. So it was a place where I really thrived in a lot of ways because of the very close friendships I got to make. And by learning to kind of develop a faith journey on my own, and that's not language really that the black churches I grew up used around a face journey. But I wasn't a very missionary kind of Campus Crusade person.
Laura Howe 05:36
Having gone to Campus Crusade, I'd done the exact same thing, the first week of school and meeting these people who were very outgoing, very excited about Bible study, I too joined up as well. And it really was such an fun, it made college fun. It did. It
Monica A.Coleman 05:54
was like good, clean, fun again, right? Yeah. And we had a good time. We bowled we had events on Fridays, and but then, because of my age, right, the USSR was falling when I was in college was kind of falling apart. And the big thing was to go to Uzbekistan, to share the gospel to those who've never heard the gospel. And it was like for real. Go there. And I was like, not that you shouldn't go, but I'm just gonna go like one train, stop down and help the hungry homeless people. I just had a very different idea of missionary work. And it wasn't a bad thing. It's just something that was kind of separated me out from being a little less involved in crusade once it got to that, that level of activity. But I don't I grew very much from it. I enjoyed it. And I felt a call to ministry. And I was like, how about we not do that guy? Because I thought I could see I had other friends who are called a ministry. I had never seen women ministers before I went to college, I had never seen young people, ministers before I went to college. And so I knew it was possible. But I also thought it was hard. I was like, Look at all this patriarchy, this is not something you want to do. And then you know, gonna have to talk about it. I realized that when I kind of knew what I should do and didn't do, it didn't go well. And so, okay, guy will do this, right? You know, this was maybe a nine or 10 month period between me kind of getting very clear. This is what I should do. And then me being like, okay, I guess I'll do it. Right. And so I was like, Oh, well, now what? This was not the plan, I had a whole different career plan laid out. And of course, people at home are like, Oh, of course, we're not surprised. Oh, you're on fire for Christ. Right. And I was like, well, let's go to divinity school, because I got questions. And there's things I want to know. And the other plan wasn't the best plan anyway. So I feel like okay, that was, that's what we're gonna do. And you know, God, and I have this arrangement. I'm like, I get good grades, you get me money, right? I felt like the first college might be a good plan. And if I don't get a fellowship, and means I wasn't meant to go, like that was just how I took it. And so I applied, and I went, where I got the most money. There were other reasons I chose to go to Vanderbilt. But that was a factor. And I had also met a professor, they are really two waves. And she was a minister in my home denomination. And she was a writer and a mom and a scholar. Like she was all the things. And I was like, Ooh, I can be like her when
Laura Howe 08:37
she broke the mold, right?
Monica A.Coleman 08:38
Yeah, she really?
Laura Howe 08:40
That's how did you connect with her? Did you read
Monica A.Coleman 08:43
a lot? She was my advisor, she's, you know, the mentor. In so many ways, you know, I think she likes the term role model, but definitely much more than that. She's like, Oh, let's be hands off. I'm like, you know, you'd like pulled me out of a little cracks every now and again. And she also kicked my ass. Like, she was a really tough professor. But I liked really tough professors.
Laura Howe 09:06
They call you out, they see something in you. And they, they, they they hold you to your potential whether you feel like it or not. That's right.
Monica A.Coleman 09:15
That's really what it is. And I tell my students, so if you think that I'm off on you, but I knew is because like, they knew that we could do it. Right. So I just had to push myself further than I thought I could go. So and I did have questions. And as it turns out, divinity school does not answer your questions. It does not teach you how to be a minister. And I say that as someone who's taught in Divinity schools as well, but it does give you a lot more information by which to understand and ground your faith. And the experiences you have particularly contextual education are the things that kind of teach you how to be a minister and maybe how not to be a minister. I didn't answer your question. So how did those things come together? Right They can't, it took a while because I had studied black people for four years. And I was like, Well, that was good. And now I want to talk about God. And I could do black religion, but I knew black religion, I want to just talk about theology and ethics. And, you know, I had some big questions. And I was like, come on with the answers. So it took probably a number of years before I began to put together what I knew about black religion and the kind of theology that I want to study. So even though I had been reading it since college, I didn't put that together in my own work for probably another five or six years.
Laura Howe 10:37
So in your writings, you write a lot about mental health, you write about your personal journey, you write about how the church can engage and support those with mental health. And and so during your, your personal interests, in your studies in African American hit culture and heritage and in history, and then in your School of Divinity. Where did the passion for mental health? Are you able to share a little bit about your journey?
Monica A.Coleman 11:08
Yeah, it came much later, actually. I was, well, maybe it came a little earlier. And I didn't think of it that way. Right. So while I was in Divinity School, I became a survivor of sexual violence. And I was bereft. Right, I was traumatized. And at the time, I found kind of legal resources, I had found psychological resources. But I couldn't find anyone to teach me how to pray again, like my face was just torn apart. And I would, you know, I was, but I was contracted to work at a church, right? Like, this is kind of I didn't have a plan B. So I had to figure out how to do this ministry thing. And I would talk to different ministers, and they were absolutely horrible. They said, just the worst things. I mean, some I think we're terrible. We're kind of not so great people, but most I think, just didn't know what to say. And their default response was painful. And I believe if I had not been in Divinity School, I would have left the church altogether. It was such a pain response. And I ended up at a great church, actually, one of my classmates took me to his church one day saw me crying in the library. And then I come to church. And I ended up at another church that was outside of my denomination. And I didn't know what to do. And that minister said, Well, just show up, the ministry will find you. And I was I was trying to figure out my own healing journey and my own faith and my own spirituality and all I just, you know, I'm a Leo, right? So when I'm mad, I just don't talk to you anymore. That's how I felt about God. I wasn't like mad at God, I was just like, I don't have anything to say, like, I'm done, right? And so I was kind of depleted, like, I just don't like, I got nothing for you. Right? I would just kind of go through the motions at church. And but I wanted right to figure it out. I wanted to be a faithful person. And so I would kind of read these resources, and they were all these things that said, the church should do something, churches should do something, it's really important that churches do something. But it didn't tell churches what to do. And so I started this ministry, and a lot of it was around helping people who were in helping professions, understand people of faith, and then helping clergy understand what it was like to be a survivor, right, and teaching a lot about post traumatic stress disorder, and creating programming that would kind of bring these issues to the bear for now, I didn't think of that as a mental health issue, I have to say, because I thought of it as a public health issue. I thought of this as this is because it was really easy for people to be really quiet about it, and to say, This is between you and your therapist, and I'm like, yeah, that doesn't work. Like that's fine.
Laura Howe 13:58
And but my therapist was a walk around with me all the time.
Monica A.Coleman 14:03
And in the stigma is based so bad, because everyone's quiet about it. Yeah. So I said, What if we preach about it? What if we talk about this in church, because it's not about sex, it's about power and control. And those are things we can talk about. And healing is a really big God thing and church thing. And so I kind of created what I needed, right? What I couldn't find and what I wanted other people to have. And in the process, I'm doing a lot of teaching about trauma, and about healing from trauma and about where God is in our suffering. So I wasn't thinking about mental health explicitly, but clearly it was about mental health. But it wasn't till I had, you know, a much kind of bigger mental health crisis when I was in my doctoral program. And kind of going even further out from there and healing from that. And being like, you know, I've tried He's happy Christians. Now mind you, I was in crusade crusade is full of happy Christians
Laura Howe 15:04
gonna say, Campus Crusade you can't get by me, you're the man. And I'm like,
Monica A.Coleman 15:09
I'm sorry. He's happy Christians. You know, every devotional is like God is wonderful and great. And those that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength. And nobody says, You know what waiting sucks. And so I really wanted to kind of keep it real devotional, I wanted to keep it real faith when this like, you know, I like God, but I'm not happy all the time. And it's okay. And I couldn't find that everything just assumed I was really holy. And I was like, I don't want to be really holy, I'm just not really holy look, I'm hanging on here by a thread. And that's really okay. And that's enough. And so I wanted to kind of, again, create the resources I couldn't find. And so I began blogging about faith and depression. And that morphed into a devotional, which became a devotional not alone. And that was when I really put together the work I had been doing explicitly in theology and around God and suffering and evil, with mental health in a more explicit way.
Laura Howe 16:08
During that time of developing these resources, and speaking out and being vulnerable, sharing a story, it is hard, I'm gonna be honest, it can be hard in the faith community to talk about that. I've had a really crummy day like this. I don't feel good. Like, this is hard. Life is hard. Like, I'm not, I'm not losing my faith. I'm not walking away from the Lord. I'm just having a rough time. And, you know, we often you know, God is good all the time, all the time, God is good and hallelujah. And, you know, we think that we have to have this faith, face of joy and happiness, but sometimes were heavy. And it's struggle, in your journey of developing these resources. And speaking out like this and being vulnerable. Did you receive any pushback?
Monica A.Coleman 16:58
Oh, my gosh, yes. This was not something I wanted to do. Let's be clear. I'm
Laura Howe 17:04
so proud. Yeah, God, I
Monica A.Coleman 17:06
had these conversations, right. It's so you know, I didn't want to do it. I, you know, I, when I was working with this program on sexual violence, it was like I was the girl who'd been raped, like, that was my identity. That's how the community saw me. This was not great for my dating life. I was not very old. I was like, 2223. Right. I still cute, I still wanted to go out. You know, it just it wasn't, it wasn't the popular thing to do. And people said all types of things about me, I would find out. And so I'd be like, God, why do I have to do this? Right? I don't want to do this. This is, you know, is there something else? I would ask that, again, I got a very similar calling around mental health. And I had mentors who were like, don't do this, you are an academic, you make your living off your brain. You can't tell people things are wrong with your brain. You should be quiet about this. And this is not good for your career. But can you write it under a pseudonym? Right? These were the kinds of things people say. And I was like, and I was they weren't wrong, right. Like, they weren't people were right about the stigma. They were judgmental. They were one. And they knew other people would be as well. It was like, God, why do I have to do this? And so I said, Okay, that's what we're gonna do. Help out, I don't do anything. And then if the opportunity comes to me, I'll take you
18:32
deals with God
Monica A.Coleman 18:32
and God's like, oh, that how are we gonna do this? And all these opportunities would come? And I said, Why? Why do I have to do this? And God said, because you can. And I really understood that it was because not everybody, I don't think everybody is called to do this. I don't think every survivor is called to tell their story over and over. I don't think everybody who lives in mental health challenge is called to just put all their business in the street. But God's like, I know, you can do it. Like you have the courage, you have the discipline. It's in you, and you'll be okay. And I was like, Yeah, I guess that's true. You know, and then I begin to accept that this is my calling, right to break silences around things that people want to be quiet about, and to try to break stigmas and to offer to the world. Things That Only I didn't have that so many people need and didn't have to kind of change my little corner of the world in that way. Like, I'm not a pastor, right? I don't want to preach every weekend. Don't make me work with children. It is keep my kid alive. And that's about it. Right? Like there are many things I'm not called to, like, God's like, this is what I'm calling you to do. Yeah,
Laura Howe 19:52
that's okay. So with all of this pushback all of the pressure and struggle and hardship that came with this what kept you motivated to continue on this path? You know, other than maybe God saying, you need to do it?
Monica A.Coleman 20:11
Well, you know, and I feel like God says I, you need to like nothing like bad things aren't really going to happen to me. Um, I don't think right. But you know, if you strive right to hear God's voice and to heed God's voice and you hear it, then you ask it like, well, what should I do And God's like this what you should do? I think I also felt very confident. Once I got past my, you know, in the theology I had in my faith, I felt very confident in God, right. So clearly, I had stopped talking to God and got over that, right got past that. And I got past that, because I realized that God wasn't like, up there like far away, right kind of giving me these edicts from on high. But God was like, right here, right there with me. And like God was holding me in the God was as upset as I was, and God was crying with me, and God was weeping with me. And I could yell at God and Kosik God, and God could take, like, and so I think, I developed a relationship, a different kind of relationship with God, where I feel like God is with me, like I have five fingers on my hand, like it is just a fact. And there is absolutely nothing I can do to shake God. And God knows me better than anyone else. And that is very, very reassuring. To me. It's the belt, I fall, that's the foundation I fall on to. And so that holds me up a lot.
Laura Howe 21:45
I'm curious, in your, in your research, and in your, in your practice of doing this? Can you share a few things that maybe that you were able to identify? Or? Or maybe maybe weren't able to identify? But are there some patterns or traits that that you noticed that were maybe harmful? Or that you were able to point? Not, I don't want to say point out because I don't think it's about finger pointing or saying someone is right or wrong. But what were some of the truths or the wisdom you were able to share from your experience, because I know those who are listening are ministry leaders and people who are in a carrying capacity. And so it'd be interesting if you could share a little bit about what you would what you would share to those that you were that you're working with?
Monica A.Coleman 22:35
Well, you know, it's not like No, no minister, no lay leader gets up and says, How can I crush somebody's soul today with what I say? Like, that's the opposite, right? That's not where anyone's coming from. And so I, for years, I've taught clergy and seminarians and lay leaders, about sexual violence and domestic violence. And so many people were like, I didn't know that was the wrong thing to say, right? So I think that we have these beliefs. And I say we it's not some of these are just in the ether, right, like society, as well as Christianity that are simply not helpful. Right. So like, God has, you know, God has a plan for everything. All right, so let's say you believe that do not say that to somebody who's suffering, like, even if it's a core belief, this is not the time or the place, right? To suggest that like God willed your deep pain, right? Like that would be an example. Right? Anything that begins with what were you wearing? What were you doing? How did you provoke this? Right? This kind of blame the victim? And some people I'm super like, Oh, I just I was curious. I'm like, No, you were probably flattered to society that does that. Right? It's, so it's not necessarily a person's fault. But that's a very common thing to do, right? To kind of say, I'm too blessed to be stressed, right? Which people are so poor, who don't read Bibles don't know it's not in the Bible. But that it's a suggestion, right? That when you're stressed out, you're not acknowledging God. And that's not necessarily true, right. There are some, some traditions that believe suicide, suicide is the only unforgivable sin. Right? Also not biblical, right. But do we really think there's some sin that's not forgivable, but why would we call suicide a sin? Right? I mean, those are the kinds of beliefs that many people hold even they don't know where they came from. And they will say out loud, maybe not to a person in front of them, but in the middle of a church service, right? Or we're praying for all the bad things in the world and we list depression as one of those rights as comes a good one that happens all the time. Like he does, like no war, no sickness, no depression, but we don't put in the same category of let's pray for the person who has high blood pressure. Let's pray for the person who has diabetes, we know that somebody is going into surgery, let's all pray for them and pray for the doctor's hands. No one's saying don't have surgery on your heart condition. They're saying, let's pray for the doctors. But why don't we say, hey, we know someone's having a tough time, let's pray for the therapists that are going to be working with our friends and our loved ones. Right? We kind of put it in this category of bad things that have to be cast out. And that makes it so you don't want to say anything, you want to be quiet, you feel like it's your fault, or a bad thing or a sin. When it's just life, life it, right. I mean, it's you have deep grief you have if you love something, and you lose it, it hurts, it hurts, right. And that's just what it means to be human and what it means to love and what it means to have attachment. And if you have experienced violence, you're not okay. And that's humanity. That's not anything bad.
Laura Howe 25:58
It's not a result of sin, or lack of faith,
Monica A.Coleman 26:02
right. But when we have all these messages that come at people from different angles for years, and years, and years and years, that's how it feels when you end up in that kind of position, or when you find yourself there. And so those are some of the things I teach, like, don't say that, like don't do that. Because we have other really great things to say like nothing can separate you from the love of God. Let's lean on to that one. That God is with us. That's what Emanuelle means. Let's lean in that. Right.
Laura Howe 26:36
Yeah. Something that builds community builds relationship builds trust rather than identifying or pointing out wrong or sin or shame. Like that's not going to be helpful. Right? Yeah, yeah. So in response to these conversations that you're having and trainings that you're doing, you wrote you you're not alone, or was that before or is that after?
Monica A.Coleman 27:03
My first book was called the Drina project, which is the congregational response to sexual violence, okay. And I wrote that as my first book, and I wrote that kind of for people like my mom and my aunt, right for just people who go to church who aren't clergy, and who care about sexual violence, say, What can I do? Right? What can I do? If I have no budget? What can I do if I have a $5,000? Budget a $50,000? Budget, right? How can I as someone who cares about this, make my church a little bit better?
Laura Howe 27:35
And is that practical things or from a theology perspective? It's
Monica A.Coleman 27:39
it's both but it's mainly practical things. It's kind of how to do ministry, right? How to do it with kids how to do it with teens, things you can do with adults. And then I talk about how do we wrestle out loud with big questions that don't have easy answers, because that's something we're not really good at at churches, we like to have the right answer. And I think it's okay to say these are big things, and we don't have great answers to them.
Laura Howe 28:02
Yeah. Yeah, we often like so often we want to put things in a box you want, right? No, it needs to be black, or it needs to be white needs to be right. Or it needs to be wrong, left or right. We want to be able to categories things neatly, entirely, but so often, lives are in the gray. Right? Or yeah,
Monica A.Coleman 28:21
like forgiveness, right. Like, I think that's the hardest thing I've ever asked us to do. Anyone who's been really hurt knows that. Like, this is not easy. But no one goes in churches says this is not easy. They say that's what you're supposed to do. But no one says it sucks. Mad. I think I get to be mad about this for a good year before I forget. I mean, right? Like, we aren't honest about how hard it is, and what that looks like and what that means and what it doesn't look like, right? We just we don't have those conversations. So some of it's like how to have these conversations, and what Scriptures you can use and what you know, those kinds of things, what liturgies you can use in then it was less than 10 years later, right? The Drina project, I think is my third book. third or fourth? Third? Yeah. And let's say that's right. No, I think it's fourth, I can't remember. But that one came out in 2012. And it came out I was like on my book tour, very, very pregnant. So they came out. And I was probably working on that for a year or so not knowing I was working on it. And when I had done my internship at a church during my ministerial training, I went to a church that used the lectionary, which black churches don't really do. So I never heard of a lectionary. And I was like, oh, there's like, an order to these things. And so I said, Okay, I'm gonna go to the lectionary and, you know, say what I really think about the scriptures and about these stories. I'm, and I was writing I blogged and I wrote devotionals. And I kind of put that into a book. Because people liked the blog, where I just was trying to keep it real about what it means to strive to be faithful, while living with, for me a depressive condition. And again, it was because there were all those happy go lucky books, and I was tired all those happy go lucky. devotionals, right, where everything is like flowers and daisies and crosses, and God was like, it doesn't mean you couldn't be faithful. But I wanted to just kind of push back against that. Yes,
Laura Howe 30:33
yeah. You have a resource that during the time of this recording, is we're right in the middle of Lent. Yes. And we're not in the middle, but nearing the end. And if you offered during before we push record, you offer to share this with the audience. And I would love to hear more about this 40 Day faith journey, based off of your book, have you are you're not alone. Because I think from our short conversation, I think this is going to be really impactful for so many people. And so I don't want to leave without hearing more about this,
Monica A.Coleman 31:10
I'm happy to share about it. So I put together a 40 day face journey based on this book, because some people wanted just more resources to go with the book. So it includes a digital copy of the book. And it includes a workbook. It's also a digital copy that you can work through as well. And I kind of put a whole bunch of other little fun things along with it. I put kind of everyday spiritual practices. Because back on my thing about you know, sometimes we get to live, we think like, the best spiritual practices are fasting and prayer. I'm like, Yeah, that's really cute. For the rest of us. We need like something that really works for our everyday lives. And I'm not anti fasting and prayer, right. But what are some other you know, spiritual practices you can do when you're a busy mom, right? Or, you know, you can't fast for health reasons. I've added some recipes in there because a lot of people go meatless, during parts of Lent, and I'm vegan. So I have lots of vegan recipes. So I just kind of for fun, put vegan recipes in there that are very easy to do, like my kid can make them and
Laura Howe 32:18
your kid eats them. Nobody
Monica A.Coleman 32:21
can make them and eat them. They taste good. I can have a shopping list. So it's very easy. Oh, that's awesome, right. And then I also include, like, everyday, you'll get an email with a little word of inspiration as well.
Laura Howe 32:33
So when you built this faith journey, where you who did you have this in mind for who is the ideal person
Monica A.Coleman 32:39
for this? You know, I think the ideal person was a person who lives with a depressive condition. But I have been told that, you know, I have people who are parents of people who live with mental health challenges, who really like the book and reach out to me and say, Oh, I understand my daughter better, I understand my son better. There are church groups, who will use the book all together, right? And they'll use these resources, and they'll get it for their entire church group to use. And so that would be a pastor, right? Or a Sunday school leader or an adult, adult leadership class leader, and everybody who's there. I don't know that people use it with minors, right? So I would say adults, right, but it seems to work well, even for young adults for college age, and all the way to people who are parents and grandparents. So it's not just for those of us who live with depression. And I think, you know, with COVID, that's like all of us now, right? We've lost a lot. We've all experienced grief. So I don't think it's just for those who live with clinical depression. Although that's who I am a person who lives the clinical diagnosis. But I think that all of us can feel like that estrangement, that that pain, that grief and that loss. And that's what I tried to address.
Laura Howe 33:58
When I'm talking with care providers, and thinking of like pastors or care coordinators, there's this often I know people are struggling, I know people are looking for help. And I just don't know where to point them. I just don't know what to say, I don't want to say the wrong thing. But I don't know how to help them. You identified a few things, like leaning into the scriptures, and we're talking about you're never alone. And God is always with you. And do you have any maybe, you know, two or three ideas where you know, that someone can use in a conversation next week or maybe an hour after listening to this podcast? Because we're having conversations with people all the time. So it would be really helpful. Maybe you have something that people can just use practically in the next conversation.
Monica A.Coleman 34:50
We'll have an easy one that takes a little longer and when it's shorter, okay. The longer one is developing relationships with therapists that are in your community or social workers, which might actually be in your church, right, but with other people in the community, because for so many people, there's still that stigma around seeing a therapist, and we won't even talk about health care, and you know, health insurance and those kinds of things. But even with the best of conditions financially, there's still that kind of stigma, right? Unless you're in California, where it's really cool to have a therapist, right, do lunch, and you have your agent call their agent, right? Everybody else in the country, it's not really cool. And so for, as we know, people take their problems to church, we take them to our religious leaders, because we know them and trust them. And so if that person says, you know, I know someone, I know them personally, this is a good person. And let me call them right now. Right? Not like, here's a card, right? But let me call them, I will go with you next week, let me walk you to their office. And if you trust me, you can trust them. That makes a huge difference. Whether you're looking at like therapeutic centers, like rape crisis centers, or you're talking about individual therapists. It just is somebody who you know, and you can trust them, people will trust them based on you trusting them. Even if it's not the best fit in the world, it just opens that door. That's a longer term one, right? Because you have to develop that kind of relationship, the shorter term, like if you don't know what to say, I think it's fine to say I don't know what to say, this is really tough, I can see that this is difficult for you or that you're hurting. And then it's a great time to kick in that ministry of presence like that does not get old, like don't say anything. Like, if you don't know what to say, it's fine to say, I don't know what to say, you know, do you want to get something to eat? Do you want to watch TV together? Can I send some Grub Hub to your house? Right? It you know, to make sure people just don't feel alone. And, you know, this also really works well with men, because they can kind of sit in the same room and that talk and watch the game or whatever it is they do, right? How men are socialized. What it works for anybody, right? Because sometimes you don't want to talk about the thing that hurts, but you don't want to be alone. And so being able to just be there with somebody and to acknowledge that their pain is real, the way they feel is real. And that there are no easy answers is very, very validating.
Laura Howe 37:26
So good. Yeah, because the other day someone sent in a prayer request. And their prayer request was, it sounded almost desperate, like I'm really struggling, I'm going through a really dark time, I'm trying to you know, make good decisions and not self harm and stay, stay healthy, but I'm having a really hard time. And, and in that moment, it's like whew, this is hard, it's heavy, but not not feeling like you have to have all the answers but yet just be present with that person and, and acknowledge their pain and acknowledge that they're not alone is can be so incredibly helpful. So when you think back to your entire journey, you know, we went very quickly through your experiences and your your research and your work and your and your ministry, when you look back at all the things that have occurred and that God has prompted you to do under negotiation. If you could write yourself an email or send yourself a voicemail, what would you tell your younger self?
Monica A.Coleman 38:44
Well, I have two answers to that one's funny, but really true. You are so much cuter than you think you are. I wouldn't be like oh, you have got this girl. So that's one I would do right. And in some level, it kind of addresses those kind of insecurities, right that the girls can have and women have and looking back now I'm like, Oh, really was so much cuter than I thought I was worried about the wrong things. So that's, that's probably one thing I would say. And but I'm a kind of more serious level, although that really is something I would tell my younger self. If I you know, it's like if you knew what men if you knew then what I know. Now, I would say like many people like it's going to be okay. It's like just keep following that voice of God and it's all going to sort itself out.
39:44
God's faithful through it all right.
Monica A.Coleman 39:47
I wouldn't understand or want to know what that meant. No. It's I'd have to be like real specific. Like, yeah, just keep you know, listening for that voice of God and hearing what you hear you No, because there's not a right or wrong, I don't think. I mean, there are some that are obviously wrong, right, but keep hearing what you hear, and all the things that seem like really big deals and that people say and that you're worried about, it all sorts itself out.
40:16
Beautiful. Well, thank
Laura Howe 40:17
you so much. I really enjoyed this conversation, your wisdom, and you're just so lovely to engage with. So thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast.
Monica A.Coleman 40:27
I'm happy to so i want to tell your listeners so they can grab a free day face journey, what they can do is just go to Monica a coleman.com. And then hit back slash care ministry and I'll have some resources for them. They're awesome.
Laura Howe 40:39
And we will have all the links on the show notes, so we'll have those easily accessible. Thank you so much.
Monica A.Coleman 40:45
Thank you.
Laura Howe 40:48
Hey, thanks for listening. The feeling of depression can be incredibly heavy. And I'm so grateful for Monica to have shared her story and how we as helpers and leaders can learn from her both to be vulnerable ourselves which is key, but also in how we can provide safe spaces for people to heal and find hope. If you're interested in learning more from Monica or grabbing the 40 day faith journey, make sure you check out the show notes at hopemade strong.org/episode 88. This whole month during mental health awareness month we are speaking to those with lived experience of mental health struggles. As I think it's important to listen and learn from those who have truly walked in the shoes of those who suffer from mental health struggles. This is both a self reflective moment and an opportunity to apply what we have learned regardless of where you're at. I hope that you have enjoyed this episode. And if you did, are you able to write a review. It helps other people find the podcast more easily and it actually tells others what you think and how it was helpful for you. I appreciate you so much. Thanks for connecting and I hope you have a fantastic week.
